Owners and trainers comments from messageboards etc
It's about time someone told the truth about Millan's outmoded methods. Why he's getting so much publicity for training that went out (for good scientific reasons) two decades ago among good trainers is beyond me...
Jay Wootten Salem, OH
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Whew!! I don't get NG channel but bought CM's vid--what a waste of bucks to watch a slick self-aggrandizing pop psych guy make money without a shred of knowledge about how "dogs" really work.
Dominance theory is so long acknowledged as incorrect--for wolves as well as dogs--that it is a real embarrassment to watch. My dogs have all been trained using R+ methods and are fab! CM's methods would create really ticked off dogs with mine. My dogs do NOT consider me a member of their pack and their hierarchy is headed by the strong but benevolent Izik whose leadership is shown by his tolerance and generosity. He has no need to show off his position--he simply IS. I spend a lot of time disabusing owners who think they need to "take a hold" of their dogs cuz CM does it". What a log of damage he does! The only things I like are the emphasis on exercise and the necessity to train.
Ashlie, 17 June 2006
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I have been fighting cesar-mania for the past year. I always ask, "Yes, but what did you actually learn by watching him?" Having Oprah endorse him has only increaed the mania.
The people who praise Cesar are the same people who haven't seen that Oprah has lost touch with reality. We believed in her when she was "one of us" but now she clearly believes she is "above" us; however, the masses have yet to catch up. If Oprah believes in Cesar, so will the masses as they seem to be unable to think for themselves.
Thank you all for the above comments as I now have alternate views from experienced dog handles/trainers to give to people who think Cesar is the answer to everything dog related.
Ariel, May 31, 2006
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Cesar is able to get dogs to do things by instilling fear in them. Great way to ""rehabilitate"" He forces dogs until they are so stressed out they break and give in. He does the ""quick fix"". Dogs do NOT ""alpha role"" eachother.
The best advice i have ever seen him give is that people need to excercise their dogs more. That is fantastic. But when it comes to actual behaviour modification and training, Cesar is a disgrace to me and my colleagues. He has even admitted publicly that he is not a trainer, only a dog rehabilitator. He has also publicly admitted that he can not train a dog to do something as simple as ""sit"" ""down"" and ""roll over"". When a crew of firemen wished to teach their Dalmation this cute routine for taking to schools, Cesar had to call in someone else. Sad.
O.C. Spirit
http://www.dogforums.com/2-general-dog-forum/5569-cesar-millan-he-real.html
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Based on the old-fashioned compulsion methods started by military trainers 40 years ago, Cesar's methods of dominating a dog into compliance are actually quite unenjoyable for our dogs. Modern motivational methods of balanced positive reinforcement with appropriate corrections teach a dog reliability and enjoyment from training.
And it's not really even about humane-ness. It's about effectiveness. There are more effective ways- easier, efficient too!
Yes, pack structure is important -but is actually achieved by our human psychological advantage, not a choke collar. Anyone can go choke and scare a dog into submission. Don't be confused by the "calmness" part. Enjoyment and calmness go hand in hand. Fear can't fit into that equation.
Cesar's mystical words of balance and energy can't stand against the scientific methods researched by animal behavior pioneers such as B.F. Skiner, Pavlov, Karen Pryor and Ian Dunbar. Think twice before "whispering" to your dog. Take a couple minutes to look up "operant and classical conditioning", "marker/clicker training", "animal learning theory". Then you'll begin to understand your dog's mind.
Alison. Canine Command Trainer
www.caninecommand.com
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When Cesar advocates talk about him they always go on about how many dogs lives he saves, like he’s a dog god, and he is the only guy out there taking on last chance cases.
This is just incorrect, there are thousands of dog professionals out there taking on and saving last chance cases. The difference, these other professional haven’t chosen to televise their work. Cesar is Mr. Dog Hollywood!
Simply because Cesar’s *work* is very much in the media, and is constantly be driven by his pr/marketing machine, doesn’t mean that other professionals are not achieving success, and doing so without using outdated punitive *methods*
Other professional dog trainers and canine behaviourists do not blindly stick to a program as CJ Anderson wrote. We evaluate and assess each dog, and then write up and apply a tailored behaviour modification program, one that is most suitable to the dogs presenting problem, and personality.
We understand that in general behaviour problems, for example fear aggression, are driven by emotion, and not dominance. Therefore in order to change the emotion, you need to change the behaviour. (Change the behaviour and the emotion will follow).In order to change the behaviour you need to change the association a dog has to a trigger. We don’t do this through applying punishment. We do it by taking the dog through a systematic program of desensitisation and counter conditioning, even in extreme cases.
Cesar on the other hand labels most problems as being driven by dominance, he sticks to a program, he is not adaptable, a quote comes to mind:
“If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.”
I think it’s fair to say the major problem other canine professionals have with Cesar, is that he completely disregards learning theory, and he treats the symptom not the cause. He believes dogs behave like wolves, and that dogs live in packs with a dominance hierarchy. (I am aware that he is not the only one out there who believes this, but he is the only one out there promoting his beliefs to such a large audience).
The idea of dogs in a dominance hierarchy with an absolute Alpha leader at the top has its origins in ideology rather than in the real behaviour of dogs.
If he were to study dogs natural social evolution, he would know that dogs descend from families of wolves, not packs, and are looking for a parent, not an alpha.
Posted by Angela on
http://vetmedicine.about.com/b/2009/07/07/veterinary-behaviorists-take-a-stand-against-cesar-millan.htm
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I used to watch Cesar Millan’s program on a regular basis and at first I enjoyed it and was impressed with his work. But the more episodes I watched, the more uncomfortable I became. The use of choke chains? Ridiculous and unnecessary. Complete and rather tyrannical dominance? Again, not necessary. There are better ways to train a dog that do not involve the overbearing and, frankly, unkind methods that Cesar Millan uses. As I saw more and more of these methods being used by Cesar Millan, I stopped tuning into the show.
It just feels to me that Cesar Millan’s ego and “I am the alpha-god” attitude has become the show, rather than the opportunity to help these dogs and their families.
Posted by Wendy on
http://vetmedicine.about.com/b/2009/07/07/veterinary-behaviorists-take-a-stand-against-cesar-millan.htm
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Personally, I want my dog’s cooperation rather than their capitulation. Dogs are opportunistic which goes hand in hand with their scavenger history, can it be mistaken for “dominance” -sure. Is it? Rarely. Fear is the most common cause of aggression.
And for the record, I use to use methods very much like CM’s in the past, and believed very much as he does. I had an epiphany over 12 yrs ago because of two significant occurrences-one involving my own dog who became very dog aggressive because of these methods. Because of which I took it upon myself to learn about canine behavior, the Learning Theory, body language, etc. Am I jealous? I may be horrified, sadden, frustrated, and angry, but I am not jealous.
Since when has being educated and informed become such a dirty thing. I have watched the show, I DO understand what he is doing - which is why I am concerned as well as most everyone else who has voiced a concern.
National Geographic sent copies of the show to Andrew Luescher, DVM, Veterinary Behaviorist before it even aired and were informed that the show was not a good idea because of the punishment based methods and outdated theories - but did they listen-no. I guess they figured with all the controversy it would be a real money maker-all from an organization that use to pride itself for presenting the most current and up to date research and science in both their magazine and in their specials-then they present a show that is the antithesis of that - go figure.
No one doubts CM loves and cares for dogs-it is the methods and outdated theory that is used to justify those methods we are against. If he made an announcement asking for someone to teach him about Positive Reinforcement and the Counter Conditioning & Desensitization methods because he wanted to change there would be so many volunteers it would silly - including those that have spoken out against the methods.
I trained professionally many yrs using those methods, until one day there was a major fall-out and another dog was nearly killed- by my dog! Once was enough for me. But then I have wondered over the yrs how many others were there that I wasn’t aware of that were just surrendered or killed because my training just suppressed the behavior not changed it-and that is what punishment does-suppress-which can look like it worked until you get a nasty surprise when it returns with a vengeance as it did with my dog. I have since “crossed over” to Positive training and have never looked back and have experience more success as a professional trainer with lasting results.
Connie Price RVT, CPDT
http://vetmedicine.about.com/b/2009/07/07/veterinary-behaviorists-take-a-stand-against-cesar-millan.htm
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Instead of listening to Cesar as he talks the good talk about his love for dogs etc., try watching the dogs’ body language when they are interacting with him. They are often SCARED! look for tucked tails, slinking bodies that are close to the floor, lip licking, whale eyes (where you can see the whites). These are all signs of fearful dogs and given that 90% of dog aggression stems from fear, it is no wonder that the man so frequently gets bit on his show.
I have watched many episodes of the DW and I continue to be amazed that people accept this as a humane way to train their dogs. If I was just in the business of dog training for the money, trust me I would want Cesar to stay on the air because the vast majority of the money I make comes from repairing the relationships between people and their dogs who have been mis-led by National Geographic.
I have been in this business for over six years and have worked for the local animal shelter where we see worse case scenarios and I have never been bitten because I respect the dogs and don’t push them past their limits. I can tell you about four dogs in the past year who were PTS after biting their owners. What were the owners doing when they got bit? Alpha rolls! Cesar’s techniques may work with 75% of dogs without negative long-term consequences but his fan club doesn’t seem to care about the 25% of dogs that won’t tolerate this type of training.
Cesar fans please learn the truth about pack theory and dominance before you believe everything the Dog Whisperer has to offer. Look to scientific journals for facts. The articles may be more boring to digest than a well-edited episode of the Dog Whisperer but you need to EDUCATE yourselves and not accept everything that a celebrity is spoon feeding you.
A. MacRae
http://vetmedicine.about.com/b/2009/07/07/veterinary-behaviorists-take-a-stand-against-cesar-millan.htm
